\u2015\u2015First of all, how did you get started in animation?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I always liked playing with dolls. This was back in the days when there were no Licca-chan dolls (Licca-chan is a popular fashion doll in Japan akin to Barbie). So I used to play with the bride dolls on the end of round sticks, dressed in kimonos made from washi paper that were sold at festivals, and my older sisters would give me the ones they no longer used and I would invent my own ways to play with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Picture books at the time were relatively stiff, large books, so I made sets for my dolls by cutting picture books to make doors and windows. I was playing around making sets, experimenting with how if you cut the paper this way you could make a bed or a chair.. I was a very playful child, so I didn’t only play with the dolls, but the dolls were interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I wondered what the purpose of dolls and puppets were and found them interesting. So throughout my school years, I did all kinds of puppet and marionette shows, and I worked part-time in the arts. There is a company in Asakusa called Fujinami Props (Fujinami Kod\u014dgu) that makes props for the Kabukiza Theatre. When I was working part-time there, I was asked if I would like to check out a place with another very interesting part-time job that involved working with puppets in a variety of ways. That place was Tadahito Mochinaga\u2019s Ningy\u014d Eiga Seisakusho (Puppet Film Productions). It was around 1959.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u2015\u2015So you first got involved in animation through an introduction to Mochinaga.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There was a sculptor named Shizu Noguchi, who specialized in Buddhist sculptures, and we worked together part-time at Fujinami Props. He must have seen that I was working hard and seemed to like puppets very much. He introduced me to Mochinaga and when I went to the animation studio, he was filming “The Fox That Became King” (\u201c\u014c-sama ni Natta Kitsune,\u201d 1959) (Note 1). When I saw the rough cut of the animation, the puppets were moving so lifelike. It was astounding and I was very surprised. I thought to myself, “Maybe I was born to do this?\u201d (laughs)<\/p>\n\n\n\n
(Note 1. “The Fox That Became King” (\u201c\u014c-sama ni Natta Kitsune\u201d) is a puppet animation film by Tadahito Mochinaga.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u2015\u2015 So it was a fateful first encounter with both animation and Mochinaga-san.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I said to him, “I was probably born to do this, so when you need help, please call me.\u201d And so, when he started working with Arthur Rankin Jr. (Note 2), I was invited rather quickly. I worked as Mochinaga’s assistant for a long time without even knowing the word \u201canimation.\u201d If you saw animation for the first time, you would be surprised, right? Ordinary dolls are running, moving, and crying as if they are alive. It was really astounding. I’ve lived for 88 years with that amazement. I will be 89 next month (laughs).<\/p>\n\n\n\n
(Note 2. Arthur Rankin Jr. (1924-2014) was an American animator. His notable works include \u201cRudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer\u201d (1964), \u201cFrosty the Snowman\u201d (1969), and “Rudolph\u2019s Shiny New Year” (1977) among others.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u2015\u2015What was your first impression of Mochinaga?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mochinaga was an amazing person. He had a great deal of imagination, and he had an amazing brain for giving shape to his images. He was an incredibly smart person. There was one time where, someone said that Mochinaga imitated Ji\u0159\u00ed Trnka because he was using puppets with joints, but Mochinaga was the first to use jointed puppets. I went to see Trnka’s “Prince Bayaya” exhibition at the department store, Isetan, and the puppet he used at the time was a jointed puppet. But Mochinaga started using jointed puppets when he was in China, so he adopted them earlier than Trnka. Mochinaga was also the first to start using three-dimensional puppets. But Tadasu Iizawa (Note 3), who was a member of the editorial board of the Asahi Shimbun, wrote a piece that claimed Mochinaga copied Trnka\u2019s puppets. I wonder if it was to support Kihachiro Kawamoto. Tadasu Iizawa loved Kihachiro Kawamoto and wanted to promote him as a disciple of Trnka.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
(Note 3. Tadasu Iizawa (1909-1994) was a playwright, director, and novelist. After WWII, he served as editor-in-chief of the magazines, \u201cFujin Asahi\u201d and \u201cAsahigraph.\u201d)<\/p>\n\n\n\n
In fact, Mochinaga gave Kawamoto all the help he possibly could when he taught him stop motion animation. For example, when Kawamoto asked Mochinaga to teach him how to animate a scene of two women sitting together, Mochinaga showed his wife sitting on a chair in front of everyone, saying, “Watch carefully. When a woman sits on a chair, this is how she does it.\u201d Then, he told Kawamoto to give it a try animating it himself, but when he tried to animate it, he wasn\u2019t able to reproduce the woman sitting well. Kawamoto was surprised at how difficult it was. Mochinaga said, “Watch me do it,” and showed him by animating a puppet sitting on a chair. Mochinaga put his all into teach Kawamoto how to animate the scene by guiding him through instructions like, \u201cAlright, if you do it like this here and hold this part here, and then you move this part like this.\u201d Although the ABCs of 3D stop motion animation were thoroughly taught to Kawamoto by Mochinaga while working together on the both of the shorts for the 1953 Asahi Beer TV commercial “Horoniga-kun to Mitsuko-san,” the public considered Kawamoto to be a disciple of Trnka.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
NHK made a two-hour documentary program titled “Kihachiro Kawamoto, Visiting the Animation Master.\u201d I and the other young people who had worked at Mochinaga’s studio, \u201cNingy\u014d eiga seisakusho\u201d (Puppet Film Productions), said, “Mr. Mochinaga, the history presented in this documentary is different from what actually happened, so you need to tell the story of how it actually happened.\u201d But Mochinaga said, “Since that’s the way he wants to tell the story now, it doesn’t matter what I have to say about it. Everyone will understand the actual story eventually, so it\u2019s no big deal.\u201d That’s the kind of person Mochinaga was. He was the kind of person who did not get angry at anything anyone said. He was also a very knowledgeable person. Mochinaga was the first animator in Japan to adopt the multiplane camera stand in “Arichan the Ant” (Note 4).<\/p>\n\n\n\n
(Note 4. Animated short,”Arichan the Ant<\/a>” (1941). Written and directed by Mitsuyo Seo, produced by Geijutsu Eigasha. Tadahito Mochinaga was in charge of the in-between animation. The full-scale multiplane camera and four-level multi-layering were used for the first time in Japan during the production of this short.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n Mochinaga animated for “Momotar\u014d’s Sea Eagles” (1943), and he was also a talented illustrator. Trnka was also a talented illustrator. Trnka also drew before doing 3D stop motion work. Both of them drew, and since they were both very talented at drawing, they were very much like one another. That is why he was so good at using frames when he started working on 3D stop motion animation. Mochinaga also made very good hand-drawn animation. Actually, Mochinaga was the director of “Fuku-chan’s Submarine” (1944), but he was not credited because at the time you could not be listed as a director unless you were a member of the Directors Guild. In fact, Mochinaga directed the film under very difficult conditions. But almost no one knows that fact. Mochinaga said, “That’s not important. If you can’t put my name in the credits, you don’t have to.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015So he was a person who had no greed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Rather than being someone who wasn\u2019t greedy, he was a person with an open mind, or maybe, a person who was not particular. The reason why Mochinaga made 3D stop motion animation was because he was asked to make an animation with a marionette. But you would have to be very good at string puppetry to do that, right? Mochinaga had a sense within himself of how he imagined the frames moving, but string puppets would not move according to those frames. So he thought how nice it would be if the puppet had joints instead of strings, and he started making joints first. Just at the right time, director Sotoji Kimura came into possession of a posable French doll with joints, so Mochinaga borrowed it, studied it, and made a puppet with joints. I heard that Mochinaga gathered a group of Chinese men who worked in technical fields, gave them drawings he made of the jointed puppet, and had them make the joints. But not everyone was so good at it, so only about two puppets out of the one-hundred made were usable. Still, he used the jointed puppets, saying, “Everyone worked so hard to make them for me.\u201d This was the first time someone had used threaded joints. The jointed puppets that came before that had used lead in the joints, and those puppets were used much earlier than Trnka\u2019s time. Mochinaga had been making 3D stop motion animation in China, but eventually returned to Japan. He also made “Little Black Sambo\u201d (\u201cChibikuro Sanbo no Torataiji,\u201d 1956), although due to its problematic depiction of Black people, there are not many opportunities for screening the film, so relatively few people have seen it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015It is not yet available on DVD, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n When I made an anthology of animators for Kinokuniya Publishing, “Chibikuro Sanbo” had caused a stir in society for being a derogatory term, so I couldn’t include Mochinaga’s “Little Black Sambo” in the anthology. Mochinaga had also made many more films than \u201cLittle Black Sambo.\u201d There was a quite good artist, Rokur\u014d Taniuchi, who drew the cover art for Weekly Shinch\u014d for a long time. His son is also an artist and also draws for Weekly Shinch\u014d. Rokur\u014d Taniuchi’s wife made puppets. The puppet in Mochinaga’s film, “Penguin Boy Lulu to Kiki” (1958), I think, is a puppet made by Taniuchi\u2019s wife. Kihachiro Kawamoto also made puppets, and the puppet in “Kobutori” (1957) is also interesting. Just about everything everyone made was interesting. By the way, do you know why Mochinaga stopped making his own independent films?<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015No, I don’t know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In 1958, at the first Vancouver International Film Festival, “Little Black Sambo” won the highest award in the children’s film category. When Arthur Rankin Jr. saw it, he was so impressed that he ordered a television show to be made in Japan, wondering how such an interesting thing could be made in Japan. This was when the exchange rate was 360 yen to the dollar. But Mochinaga did not want to make the show for Rankin. Everyone knew how much Japan had been hurt by the U.S. with Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Bombing of Tokyo where incendiary bombs fell down on the city like rain. There\u2019s the history of events like those of March 1st, which marks the day when Nagaoka City in Niigata Prefecture suffered a devastating air raid that destroyed about two-thirds of the city. That is why he said, “I don’t want to do work for the U.S.,” but Mochinaga himself did not have money. When he returned from China, he was given a position at Dentsu Films. At that time, both Einosuke \u014cmura and Toriz\u014d Matsumoto told him, “Mo-chan, if you just do Rankin’s ‘Pinocchio,’ you can buy a camera and a Parvo motion picture camera, as well as a tripod, so you can animate,” and that was how Mochinaga intended to start.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The animators were Mochinaga and his two assistants that he was teaching how to animate, so even though there were only three people in his studio, Mochinaga was commissioned to make 120 five-minute episodes for a television series. At that time, I joined the team. We were a group of people who didn’t even know the letter “a” in \u201canimation.\u201d There were six or seven of us, including a man who had been a producer at the advertising agency, Hakuhodo, a man who had played the role of a lord at the filming studios in Kyoto’s Taimata, and Mr. Ide, who had done a play with J\u016bkichi Uno at the Mingei Theatre Company. I made the animation myself while Mochinaga taught me. So it was a lot of work, but Rankin sent us storyboards, designs, dialogues, set drawings, and music, so all we had to do was move the puppets around in a somewhat existing package, so there were parts that looked interesting even if poorly done. In the midst of all this, Rankin said that he broadcast it on two of the three major American television networks. That is how he made his money, he said. Everyone wanted to continue working with Rankin, but Mochinaga was absolutely determined to stop after “The New Adventures of Pinocchio.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n Around that time, MOM (Note 5) was formed, led by Einosuke \u014cmura and Toriz\u014d Matsumoto, to presumptively preserve Mochinaga’s work, but the film warehouse burned down and the films that had been under contract with Rankin were lost. Because work from the US had firm contractual relationships, we had to pay a very large penalty fee. When I went to the warehouse in the morning, I was surprised to see that the brick warehouse was on fire with only the bottom part of the building messed up and ablaze.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 5. MOM Productions was a puppet animation production company that was created by Tadahito Mochinaga with Einosuke \u014cmura and Toriz\u014d Matsumoto following the closure of \u201cNingy\u014d eiga seisakusho\u201d (Puppet Film Productions) in1960.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015No one knew the cause of the fire?<\/p>\n\n\n\n The cause was determined to be that of a small fire, and we started reshooting the burned films. It was a really tough situation, with everyone staying up all night for more than a week. Day after day we would animate from morning to night and then sleep for a bit. One day I looked around on the set and saw that the cameraman was sleeping covered by the camera magazine, or rather, everyone around him was sleeping, and only I was awake and moving. I told him to push the switch, but no one was awake. I was like, “Well then, I might as well go to sleep too.\u201d It was that kind of situation. In the end, Mochinaga could not get out of this job with the US. So many, many, many orders for films came in. So, the production of \u201cRudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer\u201d (1964; screened in Japan 1967) and “Mad Monster Party” (1966) continued and Mochinaga was really exhausted. He outright refused to make “Monster Party,” saying that it was definitely not a film for a Japanese person to make. Then, both Einosuke \u014cmura and Toriz\u014d Matsumoto brought in young people from the Federation of Cinema and Theatrical Workers Union of Japan and formed a team to make “Monster Party.\u201d They said, “Mochinaga-san, you don’t have to do it.\u201d I was also working on the film “The Daydreamer” (1966) based on the stories of Hans Christian Andersen, and we were all involved in \u201cThe Emperor\u2019s New Clothes,\u201d \u201cThe Little Mermaid,\u201d and \u201cThumbelina\u201d portions of the film. The union workers told us that animators were workers in the union too, so we shouldn\u2019t be allowed to stay up all night and had to leave the studio around 6:00 pm. So when we were filming, if three of us came in to work, all three would leave early. All the others in the studio thought it was a waste to leave early when we were doing such interesting work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The union workers could not animate without a live-action video reference, so they asked us to make video references, and animated while watching the monitors playing the references. The other people in the studio all said, “They are animating while watching TV. That\u2019s an animation method?\u201d They were surprised. But there was no way we could make the deadline for the films. In the end, Mochinaga was brought to tears, and we all had to help finish the films. I was doing “The Little Mermaid,” and of course I would help with “Monster” as well while I was working on \u201cThe Little Mermaid.\u201d In “The Little Mermaid,” the Mermaid loves the young Andersen, Chris, but in the end, he says goodbye and swims home. The boy from the production team stayed by my side the whole time, and it seemed that as soon as I finished shooting, he had to take the negatives to the US and develop them as fast as possible to meet the deadline. He would be by my side, not saying a word, but waiting the whole time for me to finish. The turnaround time was that tight. So if not for that fire, Mochinaga might have made more of his own films.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Anyway, it was very difficult. So the three young workers from the union were treated very well. The union cameraman was talking big, saying things like, “You know, you can just go sine, cosine, and tangent to move the camera in stop motion.\u201d Our in-house cameraman had mastered making moves with the camera in “Pinocchio,” so he said to the union cameraman, “I’ll teach you anytime you need help,” but the union cameraman was stubborn and wouldn’t come for help, so a week went by and he still couldn’t film it. Finally, he came to our cameraman and said, “Excuse me, but could you teach me how to move the camera,” and our cameraman showed him how to do it our way and told him, “You couldn’t have done it just with sine, cosine, and tangent.\u201d After that, he was was able to move the camera somewhat, but the production was such a mess. Even in the midst of all this, Mochinaga was desperate to get the film done, so was really mentally exhausted. If the films had not been lost in the fire at the time of “Pinocchio,” I think he would have been allowed to stop his work with the US after just \u201cPinocchio\u201d and would have made more of his own films. I heard that MOM made a lot of money from the work with the US because the dollar was 360 yen to the dollar.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It seems the studio gave a lot of money to support North Korean film productions. I heard that it even resulted in a court case. Taking money out of MOM to give to North Korean film productions was ultimately determined be a breach of trust. Matsumoto and \u014cmura both did it, and it went to trial, but politically it was decided rather early on that it never happened. It was 1960, ’61, ’62, so we were making about 7,000 or 8,000 yen a month. I think those who came from the union were paid more. Because of the politics involved, people under Mochinaga were all paid less. But we thought we were doing something really interesting. To make the puppets move like that! I was so happy every time I watched the rough animation reels.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Since I had been Mochinaga’s assistant for a while, I knew him quite well and understood his pain and exhaustion, so I wanted to let him make what he wanted. Trnka was paid by the government to make his films. But Mochinaga came back from China penniless. When he was living in housing for returnees from former Japanese colonies in Tanashi, he was having such a hard time making ends meet that he had to worry about what he would feed his children each day. At that time, when I was making “Beer Mukashi Mukashi” with Tadasu Iizawa\u2019s animation team, Iizawa and the others were talking about which Shiseido’s snacks they liked at 3 o’clock. I wondered about the differences between Iizawa and Mochinaga\u2019s lives. Still, Mochinaga never once complained about the things that went on during those days. He told me nonchalantly, \u201cI had the secret police following me. I didn’t like the idea of having the secret police following me, but I didn’t want to lead them to my house.\u201d Iizawa, who worked for Asahi Shimbun, was a member of the House of Peers and was rich, so his life was different from that of the returnees from former Japanese colonies. Even in those conditions, Mochinaga did his best to teach Kihachiro Kawamoto. Considering those circumstances, when Kawamoto said that he was a disciple of Trnka, people around Mochinaga were very angry. Nowadays, when I ask who started puppet animation in Japan, some young people say, “Kawamoto,” and others say, “Y\u016bichi It\u014d.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tadanari Okamoto of Echo Incorporated was also supervised by Mochinaga for his animated graduation thesis at the Nihon University College of Art. When the educational publishing company, Gakken Holdings started making their own animations after having only done 2D animation up until then, Masatsugu Hara, a famous producer at Gakken, was told by Matsue Jimbo, “Go to Mochinaga-san’s studio and learn 3D stop motion animation.\u201d Jimbo also learned animation from Mochinaga. Mochinaga was a man who passionately taught all the ins and outs of animation without hiding any techniques. Okamoto, Kawamoto, and Jimbo were all people whom Mochinaga taught. When we were working on “Pinocchio,” Okamoto often came to our studio to learn from him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n On the other hand, Okamoto had a producer-like power about him, as or rather,the spirit of an Osakan or perhaps you could call it his businessman side. I knew Okamoto for a very long time. The way he directed at Echo Incorporated was interesting. Everyone worked on the films as if it was their own personal work. There was a producer, a director, and a cameraman, and everyone worked as a team to make the animation. They would have a simple storyboard, and, for example, Yoshioka, the cameraman, would say, “It would be more interesting if this part moved, so let’s give it a go,” and then he would add camera work. As evidenced by the puppets in “The Magic Ballad,” I think the foundation of Echo’s work was the precision and richness with which they expanded the images established by each of the characters created by puppet artist, Sumiko Hosaka. There were no instructions for how the puppets should be moved in any way during their performance, so I did everything myself. I put in all kinds of movements. The art was created by doing interesting things through the art itself. I just did the things I wanted to try out. So Echo was interesting. Even today, there is only one interesting director in the advertising industry, and his team also seems to be creating works where all of the staff take part in the creative process together. He seriously involves his staff in the production. The most enjoyable and powerful work is done with the awareness that you are creating the work yourself. In that sense, Tadanari Okamoto was interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015You mentioned that you were in charge of the acting. Did Mochinaga teach you the direction methods and techniques that you used?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Mochinaga was not the type to tell people what they had to do. He only taught me animation techniques. I learned by watching Mochinaga. At that time, we were shooting in 24 frames per second. I think we used Doi Mitchell 16mm (Note 6) made by Doi Giken. There was a time when the inside of the camera broke and something sharp got into the film, so the cameraman wouldn’t come out of the darkroom because he was bothered by it. It wasn’t his fault, though. At the time of “Pinocchio,” I think there were about 10 teams working on the film, including those that were brought in from outside our studio. There were probably about six teams in Ikebukuro that were brought in just to work on the film.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 6. Doi Mitchell 16mm camera<\/a>.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Among all the members of those teams, were you the only woman?<\/p>\n\n\n\n No, there were many women in the studio around the time of “Pinocchio.\u201d However, I was the first one to work on commercials. Other women did not enter the advertising industry until much later. I think I started doing commercials after 1960 or around 1970. I was the only woman in the advertising industry at that time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Did you have any problems or difficulties being a woman in the studio?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nothing in particular happened, but I don’t recall being treated especially kindly either.. I really tried to make everything I animated interesting, and I think I am rather good at finding the interesting parts in a particular work, but there was one time I left during work hours. During a meeting, the cameraman said to me, ” Magari-san is working on this. I really dislike stop motion photography”. So I said, “I see. I’m sorry. I’ll leave then,” and left. It was because I didn’t know where I belonged after being told that. I never ran away from studio again after that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This was during the bubble era, but it was after I had my third child and it was three weeks after I had given birth, and they really wanted me to come to the studio, so I came in to animate. At that time, I had a little trouble when someone said to me, “Magari-san, your boobs stink.” Because at three weeks after giving birth, my boobs were still producing milk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015That would be considered sexual harassment now. So you went back to work three weeks after giving birth?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, that\u2019s right. Three weeks. It was because it was during the bubble era. When I did “Princess Comet” (1967), I worked until I was ten months pregnant. My belly would get stuck in the stop motion set, so I had to lie down and animate like this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Wow, it\u2019s amazing that you did that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Even with such a big belly, everyone was in high spirits. Except for when Haruko Mabuchi, who played the mother in “Princess Comet,” rolled her eyes at me. A pregnant woman walking into the studio like this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015She must have been surprised.<\/p>\n\n\n\n She must have thought there was a crazy person walking around. I had to animate, and I wanted to do it. So I don’t remember being discriminated against because I was a woman. During the bubble era, there really were not many animators. There were five of us, including Koichi Oikawa, myself, Eiko Ando, and Yutaka Mikome, plus a few others, though I\u2019m not sure who else was there, but that was about it. So it was the kind of work environment where I would be told, “Magari-san, you are a month ahead of us,” and I would get a head start on the shooting schedule. Our films were selling so well that we didn’t have time to rest. I must have animated almost every day, sometimes completing three animations in a week. I animated so fast, I was usually animating about 10 seconds a day. Nowadays, you have to check the previous frame on the PC before proceeding, otherwise you can’t do good animation, but that wasn’t the case back then. That\u2019s why I actually feel sorry for animators now, because they are bound by such conditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) I started off in the advertising industry, so I know the era you\u2019re talking about well. Only the animators knew what they were filming.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You only find out three days later. While watching the rough animation reel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) When I entered the commercial industry, I was told that if I had a stop motion project, I should secure Magari-san before anyone else, even before the director or the cameraman.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, you secured the animators first. There was Koichi Oikawa and Yutaka Mikome, and it was a time where each animator had their own personality. Nowadays, it is probably no good for an animator to have their own personality. They have to move the puppets carefully and beautifully. I think we are living in an age where animators are trying to move puppets as actors, but the animator\u2019s personality is being denied. So I feel that animation is becoming less interesting. Because everything is just working towards being “beautiful.\u201d Even when animation is messy or shaky, it can still be unexpectedly interesting. Even actors have their own personalities, don\u2019t they? Even a bad actor can be interesting at times, can\u2019t they? That’s what acting is all about. My animation school, Magari-Juku, doesn’t look at the computer screen while animating at all, and we don’t use rigs either. We only hang the puppets on something when we make them fly. But until we do it, everyone is having fun and making a lot of noise and squealing while figuring out how to make the puppets act. We consult with each other and say things like, “I like this kind of movement,” or “I like that kind of movement.” We do it as if it we are doing a live performance, so it\u2019s bit interesting. So I think there are many ways to do animation. I think Dwarf Studios created one form, though<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) Actually, just recently, I had been thinking about how there is a difference between great animation and good acting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There is a difference. It\u2019s a matter of whether or not they are able to convey what they are trying to animate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) That’s right. And that\u2019s why, even though the number of people who can animate is increasing, it does not mean that they are all good actors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Being able to \u201cconvey\u201d something is not the same as being meticulous. Whether the detailed meticulousness or the beauty surpassing CG is conveyed depends on the acting style. I\u2019d like to ask what your thoughts are on that, Matsumoto-san.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015 (Matsumoto) That’s exactly what I have truly been think these days. It’s good, but it’s not interesting. It doesn’t come across. It’s like they are clumsy or something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The animation everyone makes nowadays is beautiful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015 (Matsumoto) That’s right. So there is a part of me that says, “I don’t have any complaints, as long as it moves nicely.\u201d That is not an interesting animation. I really think it lacks power.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Sometimes there is no power in the animation. Humans don\u2019t actually move that beautifully either.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) Now that Magari-san has mentioned this problem, I really do think this is the case.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I think my studio is a rare place that does not rely too much on PCs. As you can see from the animation at the screening on August 17 (Note 7), we are creating something quite interesting. Though it\u2019s not as beautiful as CG, of course. Surprisingly, the animation is rough and sketchy. Still, it has its good points. I think we must never forget that. I want animators to start from there. Don’t aim to make it beautiful from the beginning. It’s okay to make something crappy. It’s okay to be rough. If you don’t start by saying, “Go ahead and do it your way,” you won’t be able to get into the fun of animation. Once you get into it, you will want to do it for ten or twenty years. Like me, I am still doing it after sixty years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 7. Magari-Juku held an animation screening at Lumiere Fuchu on August 17, 2025.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n -So you\u2019ve kept your passion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It’s not so much passion as it is the fact that it’s all I know how to do. I can’t do anything else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015 (Matsumoto) But it’s fun, isn’t it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n When the animation doesn\u2019t convey what they are trying to animate, I make them do retakes. Then the animation gets better. The person who animated it is surprised to see how much it has improved. That’s what makes it interesting. After I left the animation school I worked at in Asagaya, I started Magari-Juku from nothing. No desks, no chairs, no shelves, nothing. I started it with no computers, nothing. It was very hard. We all searched the Internet to see if there was anything locally available for free. We would say things like, “There’s a refrigerator for sale!\u201d And so on. So it took a long time to make Magari-Juku a place where we could animate. When I taught in Asagaya, a lot of troublesome things happened, like students fighting with each other, but here it’s really peaceful. There are no fights. It’s very interesting. If you leave the students alone, they\u2019d animate forever. The students made “Maupassant’s Grandpa Toine (TOINE)” this year, and they have been working forever on making delicious looking sausages. The beer glasses, which they have been making for a long time, are coming along very well. I think it would be better if they didn’t have to make so many props, but they do it happily. They\u2019re running out of time to animate, but they are doing a thorough job making it. I thought it was good for them to spend so much time making the props.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015How many students do you have in Magari-Juku now?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Ten. We can’t accommodate any more. The second floor is small, with two places for sets. The first floor is for the multiplane camera. We also use the multiplane camera with the sets. That’s why we only have two new students this year. Some of them are graduating. It’s hard work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Do newcomers to Magari-Juku receive any training?<\/p>\n\n\n\n One of them entered to receive training on how to use the multiplane camera. If you know how to the multiplane and understand the basics of cameras, things like aperture and shutter speed, then anyone can use modern cameras, right? In the old days, film was very difficult. What to do with the light, what fraction of the light is needed to get this blackness, and so on. I lived through a generation where people had to cut and connect film with Japanese shears (wabasami). At first it was black-and-white film. Now it is hard to keep up with computer specifications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015 (Matsumoto) I started with film, but it was in color.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I started from black-and-white film. The usual topic when doing commercials was what percentage of households had color TVs at the time. What should we do with red? We would say things like, \u201cI was thinking that since 50% of households have color TVs now, red should be color we use in the commercial.\u201d Or, when people still largely had black-and-white TVs and only 10% of households had color TVs, we would say things like, \u201cWe should use black-and-white tones.\u201d The cameraman had a very difficult time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015 (Matsumoto) We had to change the aspect ratio from 4:3 to 16:9, but that was not that hard of a thing to do at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When we received the images back from Tokyo Laboratory or Imagica, we would inspect the film reel frame by frame.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) That must have been a dramatic change. There was time between the end of shooting and watching the rough animation reel, and it must have been nice to all watch the rough footage together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We would all watch the rough footage and if it went well, we would want to go out to drink to celebrate. At that time, everyone had no money and rode the train, so it was okay to drink. It was fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) Edited material was also properly screened as a preview to the staff, and it was nice to have that kind of “ritual.\u201d Now it seems like everyone does it on a computer, sends it off, and that’s the end of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That and the tension in the studio. Now you have sponsors coming out of the woodwork. Producers such as the advertising agency, Dentsu Group Inc., just serve as a bridge between sponsors and the animation studios. When I was working in the advertising industry, the producer and director still had power. That is why commercials were interesting. It was the most interesting time and money was pouring in. We would talk about what approaches we wanted to take for our next piece at commercial meetings. I was working for the Japan Natural Color Film Co., Ltd. (Nihon ten’nenshokueiga kabushikigaisha) (Note 8), and the cameraman would say nonchalantly, “Magari-chan, how about moving it like this?\u201d It was a production company that had the habit of having everyone talk through brainstorming together. There were few advertising agencies like this. Among all the people working at the advertising agencies, Kazuyoshi Hayakawa was special. The commercials he directed were interesting. At the time, he liked stop-motion animation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 8. Japan Natural Color Films Co. was an advertising production company. Its abbreviated name was Nitten. It is now Soda! Communications Inc.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015It\u2019s because Hayakawa likes making things with his hands. He is the director of the Central Japan Railway Company\u2019s “Express” commercial series. He is the type who likes “creativity.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n In the Scotch Tape commercial, there were male and female puppets, and the male dolls were made with latex in the same way we had made puppets up until this point, but the female puppets were made differently. When the late illustrator Seiichi Tabata was working on Rankin’s “Pinocchio,” there was a part where a gorilla appeared in the series. At that moment, the gorilla was beating his chest in the episode, and Tabata said, “Magari-san, you can’t use latex for the puppet here,” and he started talking about using foam rubber instead. He was a graduate of Kyoto University’s Faculty of Science, so he had the background knowledge, and when he started working on the puppet, he got really into it. I went to some chemical company and ordered materials, and finally learned how to make puppets from foam. We made a puppet using foam rubber at first just for the purposes of making the gorilla\u2019s chest. The usage of the foam rubber in \u201cPinocchio\u201d was so interesting that Hayakawa consulted Tabata about how to make the female puppet for the Scotch Tape commercial. So it was in Hayakawa’s Scotch Tape commercial that a foam rubber puppet was first used in the Japanese TV industry. They were not used even for Tsuburaya (Productions)’s \u201cKaiju Booska.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n By the way, when they created TYO Inc., Hiroaki Yoshida, Hayakawa, and who was it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) The directors were the two of them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n They built TYO in Roppongi, right around the other side of a graveyard. I used to go there often. On the way there, there was the restaurant, Roppongi Shokudo.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) Back then, there was time for commercial production. There was time to prepare and experiment. Nowadays, you have a plan and a short deadline for delivery, so you can’t try various things. We have a storyboard, and the shooting schedule is set quickly. Back then, we had time to ask, \u201cWanna experiment with some new foams?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n There was room to try something out. There is a clear distinction between productions where the producer is the head and those where the director is the head.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) My company, TYO, is a company where the directors have a totally strong position in the company. Yoshida and Hayakawa.<\/p>\n\n\n\n TYO is like that, and the place where Tae-Yeong Lee works is also a place where the director has a strong position, and the meetings for commercials were interesting there. In many cases, directors are very rebellious. They are very selfish, and it is very interesting to hear what they have to say about one thing or another. I liked the meetings for commercials the best. It’s when they say things that are egocentric. Sometimes they would shout about things that were impossible. That was interesting. It was a learning experience for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) I would hear that kind of talk and foam at the mouth (laughter).<\/p>\n\n\n\n Poor thing, you had to do something about it, didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) The adults were telling me how hard it was, and I didn’t know what I could do about it, but I had to do something, so I walked right around every which way to different people and asked them to teach me. But it was a lot of fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I would get scolded if I didn\u2019t finish my bento box.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) We\u2019re scolded even more for the trivial things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If you left something over, you were scolded.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) Nowadays, they say that if you are feeling a bit low on energy, you will become depressed, but they would say, “Don’t be depressed,” and that would be the end of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There was a lot of power harassment. I was told things like, “You son of a bitch, you idiot!<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) If the terms “power harassment” and “sexual harassment” had existed back then, all the bosses would have disappeared, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Everyone liked to do something. I think commercials became less interesting in one fell swoop after art students started drawing the storyboards. Before that, there were written storyboards (ji konte). They were storyboards that only used words in the storyboard format. The excellent commercial director T\u014dru Kawasaki (Note 9), for example, used written storyboards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 9. T\u014dru Kawasaki is a commercial director. He is famous for Fujifilm’s Fuji Color Print commercial, “The beautiful become more beautiful, and those who aren’t… well, they are what they are\u201d (starring Kayoko Kishimoto and Kirin Kiki), among others.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n T\u014dru Kawasaki was a very quick editor, and he would sometimes draw circles and triangles on the written storyboards. With the written storyboards, there is an atmosphere where you can ask, “This one with the triangles is this one, right?” After the students from the art schools started writing storyboards for the sponsors, the storyboards became somewhat less full of life. Storyboards drawn by the director are more interesting. They know what they want to do. You can’t just plan the appearance of the animation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) I agree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Even if you agree, you can’t say it aloud anymore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The animators Keita Ueno, Makoto Takano, and Shota Ogawa came to me the other day and told me that they had received orders to “please make the movement of the puppets this way.\u201d For the simple animations, they said they would have the girls from the company act out the scene, film it, and give it to them as reference footage. I was angry and said, “They are so rude to give you such an order.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) For example, it would mean showing how to act to a big name actor like Sayuri Yoshinaga, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. No production company gives an order to an actor, saying, “Please act this way.\u201d Because they value the personality of the actors. Being an animator is also a job that relies on personality. Each of them has their own way of using the animation frame. My way of using the animation frame has been inherited by many people like Takano and Ueno, and I think that those who use a different approach than mine are also showing their way of using the animation frame. And then I was shown a performance done by an awkward office worker. That kind of world is wrong. I used to say that everyone should become a director as soon as possible. The people I\u2019ve taught are not shameless, not a single one of them said, “Me, me!”<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) If you say so, then it\u2019s probably true.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Not a single person is willing to take on work themselves and gather everyone together to do it. Rather, they are people who are happy to be animating and think it just is what it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) That is both good and bad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think it’s bad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) It’s fun. Everyone is good at it and it’s very nice, though I understand why you don\u2019t like it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Everyone likes what they like, I suppose. -(Matsumoto) But it is also a treasure to produce a lot of people who like animation and think making it is fun, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n But that means creating people who will be used by others. So I’m hoping someone, even just one or two people, will gather everyone together and say, “Hey, let’s try making something like this.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) But everyone has that kind of spirit. Ueno-san and Shota Ogawa-san also have that kind of spirit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n After all, they are already making their own works, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) I would like to give more support to people like them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I didn’t fit in with the animation for \u201cHoichi the Earless.\u201d I tried to do too many things. So I want people to look forward to the film\u2019s completion. Even if we wanted to bring in a few more people to work on the film, we couldn’t because the studio is a regular house and the floor is too soft. At first I wondered why the screen was shaking so much, but I noticed that it started shaking when I walked around the house. Then I bought a board that was an inch thick and brought it in the house, and set up the camera and the set on top of it, and when I animated on the board, everyone sat by the wall and we shot it very carefully, saying “Okayyy, shooot.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Can you tell us about your film “The Little Bear Oof” (1983), and what inspired you to create it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n The thing about children is that before they know what made them laugh, they are stimulated by the next thing. In short, the right brain is not developed yet. I felt that the right brain and left brain must be nurtured in balance. When I saw the picture book “The Little Bear Oof” (Note 10), I liked it. I thought it was so cute when Oof wonders, “Am I made of pee?” I made it when I had no money at all. It was still the era of film cameras, and when I was doing commercials, I said, “Everyone please give me your leftover film,” and I received a lot of film. I made it with that film. I didn’t have a studio. I filmed in my own place and was lent a studio that Mochinaga had built to make his own work for the field scene in the film.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 10. The original story of “The Little Bear Oof” (1969-2001) is children’s literature series written by Toshiko Kanzawa and illustrated by Y\u014dsuke Inoue. It has been translated into many languages around the world and has also appeared in textbooks.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Lastly, do you have a message for the younger generation, such as high school and college students, who want to make stop motion animation?<\/p>\n\n\n\n To start, I\u2019d say, “Read stories.\u201d Even if you like animation, it is not only about animation, but also about movies, watch classic movies, and read classic novels. To start, I\u2019d tell them to read lots of stories and become the main character by having lots of life experiences, because there are completely different ways of living.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015What are some of your favorite novels and movies?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I recommend Maupassant’s short stories to the children who come here to Magari-Juku. And “Konjaku Monogatarish\u016b” (Anthology of Tales Old and New). \u201cKonjaku” is a treasure trove of stories. I have adapted six or seven stories from “Konjaku.\u201d I made them read stories from \u201cKonjaku\u201d and adapt them into animations at the school in Asagaya as well. Maupassant’s short stories have very vivid portrayals of humans. It\u2019s definitely the case with his short story, “Boule de Suif.\u201d All human beings are raw. Of course I like O. Henry and others, and everyone loves the anthologies of his short stories. They are interesting and can be used as material for films. But as a start, you should look through “Konjaku Monogatari” at least once. It was Ry\u016bnosuke Akutagawa who revived interest in “Konjaku Monogatari” once more in the world. When “Konjaku Monogatari” had been completely forgotten, he wrote various works inspired by “Konjaku Monogatari,” such as “The Nose,” “Theft,” “The Spider’s Thread,” and “Yam Gruel,” and everyone paid attention to “Konjaku.” Since \u201cKonjaku\u201d is great as an easy to read book, I would encourage them to read “Konjaku” from time to time in their spare time. Some of the stories are three pages long, some are five, some are six or seven, and they are definitely interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The other thing to do is to watch other people. Be interested in other people. Nowadays, people don’t have the opportunity to become interested in other people or to be exposed to real things. Especially children. When we were kids, didn’t theater companies used to come to your school to put on plays?\u3000I want them to have the experience of seeing a live play. I would expect there to be a puppet culture in Japan, like that of Bunraku, but they are thought of very lowly, as puppets are considered to be for children. In the Czech Republic and the UK, puppets are something adults find delightful to watch, and adults roar with laughter when they see marionettes on the street. That is why they also enjoy animation. That culture does not exist in Japan. In Japan, there are many people who act all grown up and think that puppets are for children. I would love to show a ton of Bunraku and other puppet shows to elementary school students for about 500 yen instead of thousands of yen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n -Bunraku is a very serious thing, like something you would see on a school trip.<\/p>\n\n\n\n They go to see it once in class, or once to see Noh or Kyogen. It’s that kind of thing, isn\u2019t it? Now kabuki is trying to get into everyone’s head, and they are doing all kinds of kabuki performances. It is interesting to see Kanzaburo Nakamura try his hand at playing the folk hero, Nezumi Koz\u014d (Rat Boy), for example. Kanzaburo’s Nezumi Koz\u014d, directed by Hideki Noda, is ridiculous, and it really is relatable to everyone. It would be nice if all the children could see something like that production. I think it would be a good idea to subsidize funds for this kind of thing, but I\u2019m not sure if that would happen. Regulations are quickly created in relation to power harassment, sexual harassment, etc., but the problem is the morality and philosophy of those who harass others. Philosophy means how to live and how to think about the value of things. They impose all sorts of regulations without providing any education on that subject; we\u2019re only creating regulations that tell people what punishment they\u2019ll receive if they act a certain way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015It’s become difficult to communicate through only safe, non-controversial conversation hasn’t it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n It has become safer to live without human connection. But that’s not enough. If you don’t interact with people, you don’t grow as a person. It is the same with children. Children can\u2019t understand each other without fighting. If they don’t get hurt, they will nonchalantly stab people with knives. If you fall down, if you get hurt, if you bleed, it hurts, right? Many children do not know these things at all. There are so many incidents of people stabbing others with knives these days, aren’t there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015That’s right. Parents try to avoid giving their children painful or sad experiences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n My child was covered with injuries all over, including the kneecaps. The doctor said to us, “You again?\u201d I was careful to make sure my child didn\u2019t have any serious injuries, though.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Do your children work in animation?<\/p>\n\n\n\n They say they won’t do hard work like I do. I wish puppet animation was a little more common. Right now the number of stop motion animators is like ten animators out of every 10,000 compared to those working in 2D animation. So, I would like to meet animation that has a great “smell” to it. Since CG has come into use, most of it is very beautiful, but sometimes there is animation that has a “smell” to it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015\u201cSmell\u201d is a good expression.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Human smell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015I have a very visceral understanding of what you mean by it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When you first start with the rig, you don’t know the weight of the character. Everyone does it so well, though. But if you do it with your hands, you can feel the weight of the character. If you have that understanding, then when you lift the puppet, you have to lift it and move one leg using the movement of your hand. But if you don’t do it yourself, there is no connection to the character. You and the puppet are not strangers; the puppet is you yourself. The character’s weight, this one’s habits, if I animate it this way, it won’t move beautifully. This character moves well this way. Depending on the puppet, one\u2019s right hand moves very beautifully, but is not as good with their left hand. Each puppet has its own personality. You will learn that as you work with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Since puppets are made by human beings, not in CG software, there is a difference in the quality of the character depending on whether joints or string fuses are used at the time. The right leg could be 2 mm longer or something like that. You move the puppet one way, and you know the puppet yourself, as you touch it. That’s why it’s interesting. When I see other people doing it, the character that was expressionless at first gradually becomes more and more expressive. The more you move the character, the more expression comes out. That is interesting. It’s like, “Isn’t the puppet starting to make a nice face?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015That sounds fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Once you understand that, you start to look forward to moving it. That’s what the students at Magari-Juku are experiencing now. It’s fun when the character comes alive inside you. It is interesting when that happens. In a fifteen second commercial, there might only be five seconds of movement, but the puppets made for those five seconds take two or three weeks to create. They only live for five seconds. You wonder how to make them look, how to make everyone think the puppet is cute, how to make people remember them\u2014as expected, it\u2019s something that you really do think hard about. So, if people thought my commercials were interesting, it might be because I put that kind of thought into each puppet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015I love the puppets from the Contac cold medicine commercial.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think I could have made that commercial more interesting. That is if the director liked animation. A shooting schedule that takes four or five days can be finished in two days if I do it. I am very fast because I have a very clear image of what I want to do. Of course, I don’t have time to look at the monitor. Why look at the monitor when I can see it right in front of me? I can’t see the detailed movements on the monitor. I can see it better with my hands as I move the objects. What I really think is impressive about everyone making stop motion animation these days is that they can tell on the monitor whether something is moving or not. I think everyone has good eyes. They must have bought a good monitor or use a large monitor. I imagine it must be tiring for the eyes and requires a lot of patience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Do the visitors that come here come because they saw your work?<\/p>\n\n\n\n They say that they like animation, but I haven’t really asked them about it. Claymation requires a great deal of modeling ability. There is Jan \u0160vankmajer’s “Dimensions of Dialogue” (1982), for example, but generally speaking I think few people possess that level of sculpting skill with clay. People with modeling ability like clay. On the other hand, there are people who like animation even if they do not have modeling skills. I have done many animation workshops in the past — I let them make something and play with it, and then they animate what they have made — but it becomes like an art class. I am beginning to think that animation workshops should be about teaching people how fun it is to make things move.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We once had a workshop where the students had to create a Kyogen play in one week. We had five students at that workshop, and they have come back several times since then, and we have let them animate their own works. We let them do things like trying to make things move while animating on ones. The other day, I had them animate on twos and above, placing scissors and various other things for them to make move, attach, run away, etc., and since I had them decide on their own theme for the work, they were amused and once again good at it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I am not a good illustrator and I have no modeling ability. What I like to do is to act and make the something act. Kids who want to make something act or to act themselves or be funny are suited for 3D stop motion animation. So I’m reconsidering if I should focus the workshop on three-dimensional perspectives. Moving something is acting. If it is a pair of scissors, how much power can be generated by closing and opening them? The expressive power of movement is what makes it interesting. I think that perhaps to run an animation workshop is to teach the fascination of movement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I would like to see the popularity of 3D stop motion animation spread somehow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) I think stop motion animation is interesting. It\u2019s very exciting. About two years ago, Takano told me, “I never thought the day would come when I could live on stop motion alone.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Now everyone knows how great stop motion is. There\u2019s a man named Yasuda who works at NHK and whose house is near Yoyogi Uehara, near the NHK offices, and he wants to build an animation studio now. So I\u2019ve been telling him, “Hurry up and build your animation studio.\u201d I have a very nice camera tripod in Asagaya, so I told him to take that and make the studio.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015(Matsumoto) Really! There are many interesting people outside of Dwarf.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In the past, we all used to hang out together, Okamoto, Kawamoto, etc. We used to go to Iwate on a nine-passenger bus to eat sea squirts (hoya), or to Kyoto to see Mibu Kyogen theater. It was spending together that led Kawamoto to create “The Breaking of Branches is Forbidden” (1968). At that time, everyone, including Koichi Oikawa and Eiko Ando, had no work to do, so we were all hanging out and having fun. There was a bar in one of the districts of Shinjuku where everyone would go to. If you went there, you would find someone there and we would have a drink. We used to hang out a lot. Kawamoto didn\u2019t drink. Okamoto didn\u2019t smoke. So, everyone was buzzing around trying to break up that fight between those two and having a good time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n As for Mochinaga’s story, if the films had caught on fire, he might have made more of his own work– I think Mochinaga regretted it as well. He ended up going to China, where he was accepted warmly, and healed his mind and body there for a while. When he became wheelchair-bound, we all went to China to spend time together. Keiko Sena (Note 11), Hosaka, and I were very close drinking friends. We went to visit Mochinaga in a big group, and Sena’s daughter and some people from other countries came too. I pushed Mochinaga’s wheelchair. Mochinaga told me, \u201cYou\u2019re good at pushing wheelchairs,\u201d and I said, “This is the second time I\u2019ve been complimented by you.\u201d And then, he asked, “What was the first time?\u201d and I said, “It was when I animated for the first time in \u2018Pinocchio\u2019 and you were animating Pinocchio and I was doing Cricket, and you said, \u2018You\u2019re talented.\u2019 This is the second time you\u2019ve complimented me since then,\u201d and we laughed. He was not the type to give compliments.<\/p>\n\n\n\n (Note 11. Keiko Sena (1931-2024) was a picture book author. She made her debut with the “Iya da Iya da no Hon” (Book of No way, No way) series. She also drew the ghosts in the famous “Nenai Ko Dare da<\/a>” (Who\u2019s the Child Who Doesn\u2019t Sleep?, Fukuinkan Shoten, 1969).)<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015”Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” is also popular in North America. Did Mochinaga ever say anything about it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n He never said anything. Only regarding “Monster Party” he said, “This film should not be done by a Japanese person, and I don’t want to make the Japanese youth to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u2015\u2015Unfortunately, our time today has come to an end. Thank you very much for the invaluable talk you gave today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":0,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-233","wija_creator","type-wija_creator","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/dock.geidai.ac.jp\/wija\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wija_creator\/233","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/dock.geidai.ac.jp\/wija\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wija_creator"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/dock.geidai.ac.jp\/wija\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/wija_creator"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/dock.geidai.ac.jp\/wija\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wija_creator\/233\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":667,"href":"https:\/\/dock.geidai.ac.jp\/wija\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wija_creator\/233\/revisions\/667"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/dock.geidai.ac.jp\/wija\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=233"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}